Starmen.Net

FallenAither:

Reading closer, that is the case! Sorry for the mistake on my end. Probably doesn’t make me look any better but for the sake of clarity I wanted to clear that up. ^^; I obviously can’t prove this until I die, but if need be I am fine with being eliminated to prove so. Though, I suggest we only do so if anyone is overtly suspicious of me. I’m not robbing the Town of a potential Mafiat kill just to prove a point. We’re likely down to the last one so prolonging things by doing so wouldn’t exactly help.

Sorry, maybe I wasn’t clear enough here! What I’m used to for stumps looks like this:

Alive stump townie → declares in day thread that they are a stump → ‘dies’ → still allowed to post in day thread but cannot vote.

And if the Stump dies before they declare, they die like an ordinary townie, and cannot post in day thread at all.

What you’re describing sounds more like if you’re eliminated in any way, you become a Stump after death, without any sort of active declaration of it. Is that correct?

Alright! If you just had to declare I might have asked you to stump right away to prove the role but I guess we can’t haha. The unfortunate thing there is it’s difficult to prove the role without eliminating you.

Regardless of the apparent weird role shenanigans we’re getting everywhere, this would be my preferred elimination order:

PKFP – Because she’s an indie with an unprovable claim that is still likely to be the mafia roleblocker. Also for targeting Sariend.

Aither – to prove the stump role.

Hammer – although the Parrot role claim seems true, the role hasn’t had any truly provable results. Nothing happened with PKFP which is kind of odd, and Deybrek was scum and the parrot action was incompatible, which could just as easily be a cover for a different night action.

Sariend – yes, perhaps our last mafioso is inactive and that’s why there was no night kill? This would be so weird if true.

Also wouldn’t Sariend not posting in the day thread but still submitting night actions be considered breaking the rules of the game a little bit? I lean towards Sariend not doing or submitting anything. The more nights we have with no night kill the more likely it is that our last mafioso is Sariend.

I see no reason to need to eliminate Drake, Lunch, Grendel, or Broomweed, all of whom are proven through tracker results, items, and night actions.

I don’t believe it is, but just not engaging in the main thread usually is.

Game Rules

Remain Active in the Game.
This game can, and probably will, take a long time. At least a month. Probably longer. By signing up, you’re promising to keep up with the game until it’s over. (Note: There’s a difference between lying low and neglecting the game, and the difference is obvious.)

I’d argue that Sariend falls into the neglecting the game side more than just lying low. I don’t think they’ve posted in the main game since Day 1, so I just think it would be a little odd for them to still be submitting Night actions. It’s not impossible but I’d just think they’d make a post every once in a while if they were still popping in to do stuff during the Night phase.

rakethelawn:

Also Drake I asked before but could you confirm that you specifically targeted me?

I considered the possibility that Lunch and I may have been bus transported (and thus all actions on us switched) but if you targeted me and it went through then that’s impossible.

I actually targeted Lunch, so that seems maybe possible? What the heck was going on last night?

Do we have any idea of what the item was that Grendel made? It’s a shot in the dark, but there’s the small potential that maybe that could have caused it? With how many people are mixed up I feel like this isn’t something being lied about, and I’m having a bit of a hard time trying to fully place down what happened.

Rn im feeling that we should flip either PKFP or Sariend. Then if the game goes into the night phase Rake shoots the one we didn’t flip.

Lunch not covering anybody and a night kill not happening looks really bad for Sariend’s slot. Otherwise, mafia did a no-kill gambit which is possible but super risky when we’ve got a huge numbers advantage.

@RakeTheLawn

Actually what are your thoughts on holstering the item tonight?

This rediection stuff could really much things up.

A strongman should be redirect-immune, right? At least that was the rule I remember.

I think it could be? That would make sense, but I’m not sure if it’s immune to everything like that or if it’s just immune to being blocked. If it’s able to go through the redirection stuff then I think we genuinely should go for it.

Sariend hasn’t even posted since Day 1.

That’s uncomfortably metagamey, but your reasoning does make sense to me, although why it’s leading you TO vote Sariend, I’m not sure.

I’m going to cast my vote for Aither.

Here’s my reasoning:

-We have a mysterious unaccounted for redirection occurring

-PKFP, who is known to be a roleblocker from multiple sources, cannot be the redirector

-Additionally, PKFP has a townie check from Broomweed, whose other two checks (me and Deybrek) have been proven true – for her to be a scum roleblocker with cop immunity it would be pretty odd

-The three people with currently unproven roles are sariend, Aither, and Hammer

-I trust personally that Sariend is completely inactive, so he cannot be responsible

-I don’t entirely believe Hammer’s claim, but I trust it more due to the whole incompatibility discussion yesterday

-Every role except Aither’s Stump role has an active component, making the role seem less likely in the game

-There is little risk to eliminating Aither as if he is a townie, he will become a stump and still be able to participate

If the game continues into the night I will use the Strongman Dish on the target I see as the best choice.

Vote: Fallen Aither

Hmm. That’s a good point actually. I’d have to imagine the person that messed with all the results like this would be a Mafiat since they’d benefit more from the confusion. Especially at this point since it completely distracts from us trying to hunt for them. Since we know PK blocks people, there’s really no way Sariend could have done something if that were the case.

Unvote: Sariend

Sariend kinda seems like it would be a dead end at this point taking that into consideration and it probably wouldn’t be too productive to keep my vote there.

Alternatively there’s a fourth indie lmao or this is somehow a town role

No way the mafia:town ratio is 1:3, I don’t think that’s at all realistic, so I’m kind of ignoring that possibility. I do think we all glossed over the particulars of PKFP’s claim WAY too hard, though. Let’s pull it up and dissect what she claimed piece by piece real quick.

PKFP:

Hi all – I need to come clean about something. I am Robin Abel, Mortuary Assistant, Antediluvian Faction. I’m an independent, and my role is functionally an Amnesiac. At any time during the game, I could indiscriminately take on the Archetype and Alignment of any deceased player, effectively adopting their slot, barring Faction. An Archetype essentially means I have the most base version of whoever’s role I stole, so if I stole from a Nurse I’d function as a Doctor. This was to make it easier for me to obscure the fact the role was stolen.

That’s a pretty powerful role considering the kinds of thing we’ve already got on-hand. A Cop, a Doctor, the ability to copy roles of player for one shot items and send them already… I’m not sure I believe they actually included this in the game. If the Cop and/or Doctor die, not only can this role basically decide they didn’t, but if both do, you could decide to be either? That’s SO much power. And sure, being indie on top of that is interesting, but that’s about as forced pro-town an indie as you can be, you’re basically just town working to fly relatively under the radar until the right moment and survive. So naturally, in the interests of keeping your head low, you claim NURSE.

PKFP:

This was a one-time action, and my wincon is simply to survive having adopted this role. The idea is essentially that my character is a mortuary assistant at the hotel, who has a habit of stealing the possessions of the corpses that come their way, room keys and masks included. They use these masks to come up into the light and explore the hotel proper, a beautiful respite from their life in the darker, grimier medical area of the hotel.

I jumped at taking on Xedic’s role not only because a Town role was desirable to me (I’d much rather win with Town than with Scum) but because I wanted a role ASAP. If a cop or role cop investigated me N1, they’d easily find that I was a 3P Amnesiac, and I suspected that Town wouldn’t hesitate me to chuck me out if that were revealed. The Nurse claim I pretty much came up with on the fly D2, and I don’t think it worked out too bad all things considered.

This really doesn’t make sense to me. Why would you lock yourself into Roleblocker before anything else came up? Being so worried that we’d instantly pile on you at first sniff of an indie, or that the cop would even come out with that information at all so early in the game for somebody who wouldn’t even be scum, doesn’t really add up. An amnesiac is an incredibly powerful role, and even IF for some reason a Cop did decide to put themself in THAT much danger just to immediately reveal what you were, the most likely conclusion would be a town ultimatum about what you are going to turn into if it comes to it, and what you are going to do so you don’t become the kind of negative utility we’d have to kill.

Also, with regard to the Nurse claim, you dragged that out for a while. I recall having to pry it out of you by picking at wording that in this light was not only willfully vague about the role, but attempting to conceal information that was not even really true. Even if the suggestion that you couldn’t say what your role was because it would do something negative for other players (I forget your exact words) was an improvised Nurse breadcrumb… why? I’m not even in the “kill all liars” crowd, but that seems borderline unhelpful to everyone else and yourself when/if you’d have to reveal. Especially because you claimed something a Cop wouldn’t detect you as, which would be worse trouble for you than just being flipped as an amnesiac in the first place. By claiming Nurse, you put yourself in more risk from a Town that finds out about you, and a Mafia that believes you’re the Nurse. This plan of action does not make sense for what you claim, and it would only serve to harm and endanger you from all sides if it were true.

PKFP:

As for my visits, as soon as I decided on Nurse I tried my best to act how I genuinely would if I were playing Nurse. For instance, I visited Broom twice as I realised she was the Cop after her defence of me D2 (even if it turns out she didn’t have the report yet then). Nurse!me would want to keep her alive, but also not block her completely, hence why I backed off and alternated days. I visited Sariend last night to see if they were submitting night actions whilst pretending to be AFK.

I’m not gonna say I don’t understand if you wish to vote me off, I’ve caused plenty of confusion for all of you, but I’d like to win alongside you all. Until I’m gone, I’ll continue to help scumhunt and answer any questions anyone has left. Lots of love <3

Nurse-blocking the Cop on alternating days feels strange to me and mostly like something a Roleblocker who wants plausible deniability around their actions would try under a Nurse claim than something I actually believe a Nurse would do, but that could be a playstyle difference. Also admitting to just flat roleblocking the known Cop a couple times is… well, I admire the bravery. But if you wanted to survive and actually benefit the town you’d be by default most likely to win if you helped, you’d want to use your power a heck of a lot more aggressively against those you thought were scum, which is also a valid Nurse playstyle.

This claim is very clever, everything looks like it could be a plausible role, and the flavor-craft that went into it is great, but it just. Doesn’t. Work. PKFP’s our last mafiat, everyone. She has to be.

Re: other shenanigans, I’m also pretty much where you’re at on it, Rake.

I will get to this all soon as I need to properly read through Drake and Rake’s analysis and respond in a way that clears it all up (and I don’t have access to my PC now which really helps with quoting and the like) but on the faction point; I assume the reason my character is Antediluvian is because he works in a traditional medical field. From what we’ve seen Antediluvian seems skewed far more to science as opposed to the magic-based Occultation faction, and since my character’s role fits into the lower rungs of the hotel’s societal structures (vs. the presumably well-off socialites), I’d assume that’s why he is part of a seemingly Town-aligned faction despite being mechanically an independent. No idea if Broom’s cop checks indicate faction in addition to alignment and role, seeing as she is some kind of supercop, but if it does I’d love if you could verify my claim in this way.

Oh I’m not suggesting we solve the game through factions and the like it’s just the easiest claim to respond to right now before I sit down and do a more thorough analysis

If I haven’t missed anything then the confirmed Mafiat roles are these:

Pio – Luggage Concierge
Silv – Role Cop
Captain – Silencer
Deybrek – Strongman

We have PK claiming to have taken Xedic’s role, but what I find interesting is we’ve been seeing that people are apparently “fizzled” when Xedic first said their ability did this:

Xedic Zyvis:

I am [flavor removed], Charmer, Occulation Faction, Town-aligned.

Assuming I read my role PM correctly, I’m basically a Roleblocker. The person I target will have their action blocked and receive the message that I convinced them to stay in their room that night.

I find it interesting that this discrepancy is there, but it’s hard to prove if that’s how things would be or not if that were the case. Xedic died before we could see what the actual message from them using it would be, so that falls purely into speculation.

I’m actually willing to believe PK’s recent claim of being a Mortuary Assistant and taking the role of another person, but it could be just as safe to assume she’s a Roleblocker just due to the nature of what we’ve seen her doing during the Night phase.

The thing that gets me is Broomweed’s claim. It’s wild to me that PK lied about being a Cop, but this game is full of lies. She’s claiming to technically be an Indie, so that’s fair enough. I mean we saw Avery being and Indie and being fine with messing around with the Town. I don’t think Broomweed and PK would be on the same team though.

With Broom confirming PK to be a Roleblocker it makes things interesting. This apparently happened on Night 3, and I can see from Day 4 on that they fully believe PK to be Town. I’m willing to trust this since it’s something that is pretty consistent. It didn’t happen just Today, and given she also said they trusted Drake and fully believed him to be Town as well…along with Rake being Town and the Mafia already having a Role Cop that died.

I either see this going two ways. PK is speaking the truth and she’s basically masquerading around as Xedic while being an Indie, OR she’s a Mafiat who is hiding behind Xedic’s alignment. I…almost feel like that would be too strong to give to a Mafia team with a Strongman, Silencer, and Role Cop. Given PK seems to have done this as early as Night 1, being able to coast along as Town and never be caught seems wild to me.

At this point I think we could vote her off just to solve that slot, but at the same time I probably wouldn’t love to be eliminated that way either. For now, I…think I actually trust her claim? But that still leaves the matter of the Mafiat at hand.

I think Broomweed is safe, and that by extension makes Drake and Rake safe to me and gives some validity to PK’s claim. You could argue maybe Broom and Rake are on a team and they’re the last two Mafiats but I don’t think that’s the case. There is the possibility Broom has some type of variation of the Cop role, which could…make things complicated so I don’t really want to focus on that too much.

Compiling all of the roleclaims and potential results, we get this for the players left:

FallenAither – Stump, Town
Grendel – Chef, (Town?)
Hammer7 – Parrot, (Town?)
Lunch Box – Doctor, Town
Drake Inferno – Tracker, Town
Broomweed – Cop, Town
Dipper – Socialite, Indie
PKFP – Mortuary Assistant, Indie (Seen as Roleblocker, Town)
Rakethelawn – Doublevoter, Town
sariend – ?, ?

I think the final Mafiat is either genuinely inactive, or is not submitting any Night actions in hopes that we just all go for our own throats. I could see Sariend being the last one, but due to not being present it’s harder to say. PK could still be a Mafiat that can hide behind results as Town though I believe their claim for the moment.

Grendel’s ability isn’t one that screams Mafiat to me, especially since I can’t see the Mafia having a Role Cop and then a basically Role Cop that doesn’t always get results and can only get them on odd days and potentially give something like the Doctor’s Dish to a random player. Drake just doesn’t seem to be a Mafiat at this point just due to how crucial he has been to us eliminating a lot of the Mafia members. I can’t see him being able to just convince the rest of his team to agree to being dogpiled to death just to have him be the only one carrying the pressure of winning.

Dipper…isn’t really a concern to me at this point, and I do trust Broomweed and in turn Rake. We know a Doctor is present due to the Doctor’s Dish and I feel like by this point someone would have came out to call Lunch out. And honestly, I…don’t really have much to say about Hammer.

To me, I think the best bets for finding the Mafiat would be:
sariend
PK
Hammer

Knowing this, personally I think I’m going to place my vote here:

Vote: Hammer7

Could be the wrong move, but looking over Hammer’s posts I kinda felt like a few things jumped out to me. They’re one of the few people we don’t really have a solid roleclaim on and we basically have Dey lying to confirm their role.

Deybrek, Day 6:

Hammer, ironically, I actually entirely believe your parrot claim because it matches what I know.

Roleclaim:

You will be playing as Michael Daesy, Sommelier, [Redacted] Faction, Town-aligned.

Known previously in your life as Father Daesy until your congregation was closed for political reasons, you have a knack for learning things that people don’t wish known. This is especially true now that you provide alcohol, and while you may be passionate about finding the best wine pairings, your true passion is for finding the best secrets.

[Redacted Faction flavor]

You are a Sommelier. You may see who targets you at night, and occasionally you may see one person that targetted them, as well.

You will note that this is not an active power, hence my previous confusion. You will also note that there is a circumstance in which it -does- target, but this interaction was not an obvious one to me yesterday.

Hammer7:

If Deybrek’s role reveals who targets them at night. Does that mean that I would have shown up? Since I targeted them?

Correct. So at least I can confirm that you were not redirected or roleblocked, just finding an invalid target. Though my assumption is that my role was intended such that if I were ever Silenced by Captain, or protected/nightkilled, I’d be able to make a report that could lead to something after further investigation.

Hammer also reacted really quickly to Rake saying they would be fine potentially placing a vote on them with this:

Hammer7, Day 6:

rakethelawn:

I could see myself voting next for PKFP or maybe for Hammer.

What did I ever do? I was one of the earliest voters for Captain yesterday, and helped out him as mafia.
That’s about all I’ve really posted.

Hammer7:

Also, I thought I’d say that there’s no real evidence to suspect me. I voted out Deybreak, and Captain Planet early. As well as having a solid role-claim supported by multiple people’s testimonies.

This is also really interesting to me because the voting isn’t really much of a defense here as it’s very easy for a Mafiat to place a vote on a condemned teammate to save their own butt from getting burned, and the only testimony I can find that “supports” their claim is Dey’s, which was fake since Dey was the Strongman.

There’s something simple you miss, though. Broomweed confirmed her as a Roleblocker, NOT a Charmer. If she’s copying the role, that shouldn’t be. And we know both send a message, so this isn’t a case of a “base” version thing.

Good morning folks! I’m hoping to respond to the wallposts properly today, but I’ve got a pretty busy irl day so it may be a few hours yet. Until then, I wanted to quickly respond to this;

Drake Inferno:

There’s something simple you miss, though. Broomweed confirmed her as a Roleblocker, NOT a Charmer. If she’s copying the role, that shouldn’t be. And we know both send a message, so this isn’t a case of a “base” version thing.

I explained this in my initial claim but my role basically assimilates any role and turns it into the most base form of a role, striped of any additional mechanics or flavour. Whilst you may think this contradicts the message function of Xedic’s role, I believe that that is just a side function of the base roleblocker role in this game, and that ‘Charmer’ was, for all intents and purposes, an Occultation-flavoured standard roleblocker.

I’ve had to be coy about the “fizzled” message in the past, but now that I can speak freely I believe it’s a result of my character, in flavour, being unable to fully harness Romuel’s magic. Whilst Robin can steal masks and possessions, he can’t do anything as complicated as telepathy and so my role simply fizzles things instead with presumably Robin’s more base knowledge of magic as an Antediluvian medical worker.

This is only an assumption, but I believe this distinction is another attempt to mechanically distinguish my role from whomever’s I stole, and there would’ve been some distinct flavour in any messaging role I could’ve stolen. I wasn’t told about this in my role PM though, I found out as soon as you did on fizzling.

Apologies that these are all flavour responses rn but I need more time to do a thorough defence of my actions as a player and read through Aither’s thoughts on Hammer.

You’re right, we don’t have proof of his claim, but he claimed Parrot. That’s pretty easy to verify with a simple night action from somebody we’re pretty sure we trust. And if nobody says who it is, there’s only so much even a hypothetical redirector could do about it. If multiple of us aim our non-essential powers at him, we can confirm him without needing a flip at all. In fact, I’ll even say outright that I’m going to target him tonight, so even if there is a roleblocker, they can either switch me, who is guaranteed to be on him, away, or risk shooting in the dark for one other person who plays along with me and be guaranteed to fail in their effort. Short of something REALLY crazy, this plan is foolproof and casualty-free.

That will either exonerate or condemn Hammer, so we can stop worrying about him until the next Day entirely. And that lets us focus our efforts on who exactly it is we want flipped. Votes seem to be kind of all over the place. Where is everybody at on who they’d most vote for right now? We need to get a collective picture of the best way to go here.

Hold on, did you just say my plan would work to clear or condemn him and then go right on to say we should kill him now anyway?

I do second that, we don’t really seem to have a great idea right now of where the vote is being cast.

The vote count if I counted right is:

Sariend (1): Hammer7
PKFP (2): Drake Inferno, Rakethelawn
Hammer7 (1): FallenAither

As a whole we still have time so there’s no need to rush, but it’ll help out if we know where everyone else stands better.